The Europe debate is spoiled by jingoistic egoism…..

Europe, it seems, is back as a big political issue. Of course, for the Conservatives ever since its creation it has been an ever-present political issue. Labour too has grappled with it and suffered greatly from internal turmoil caused by the continent that is, relatively speaking, a hop, skip and a jump across the sea. I think the centrality of the ‘Europe question’ shows an awful lot that is wrong with British politics.

Sadly, to my mind it shows a certain lack of maturity – an inability to get to grips with Britain’s place in a world in which it no longer strides like a colossus across the globe and it certainly no longer imperialistically enslaves 3/4 of it. Being once ‘great’ does not make Britain a special place or either particularly exceptional – if it does, Rome has equal, if not greater, claim to this kind of special status.

It is irking that Euroscepetics consistently whine about the democratic deficit in how the European Union is governed but then, in the next breath, are desperate to claw back ‘national sovereignty’. Institutions like the European Council are precisely their because of ‘national sovereignty’ concerns yet they are the most undemocratic because they take power away from the people, and institutions like the European Parliament – which is the representative and elected part of the EU.

The subordinate position of the European Parliament – the elected element of the EU is the product of politicians selfish, greedy desire to suffer no challenger to their position – not the product of their desire to protect ‘national interest’. The national interest of every single European nation is better served by tighter union. Until we can have a mature political discourse in Britain about the necessity of that we unlikely to move forward as a nation or contribute much to the development of a democratic European polity.


About darrellgoodliffe


8 responses to “The Europe debate is spoiled by jingoistic egoism…..”

  1. Paul Perrin says :

    The only point of government it to make people do what they otherwise would not.

    If people would do something anyway, no external (government) intervention is required.

    For many years the people of the UK have accepted being made to do things by the UK government – although the scots/welsh have become less accepting.

    Allowing the UK government to coerce people is bad enough (but generally accepted) – why on earth would anyone think it a good idea to be further coerced by another organisation (the EU)?

    The EU ‘matters’ when it makes national governments do things that they would not otherwise do (for better or worse). If you don’t trust your directly elected MPs at westminster to look after your interests effectively, why on earth would you expect strangers in brussels to do a better job?


  2. Graham Gillis says :

    Government is graciously allowing itself to discuss discussing three options on the European Union.
    1/ Stay in
    2/ Get out.
    3/ Stay in and pretend to negotiate until it goes away.
    We are paying them to do this on our behalf.

    Back in the real world, the rest of the country is discussing whether they want a British administration for European rulers and one other option.

    1/ EU and its tax collectors, LibLabCon.

    2/ UKIP. British Government.


  3. darrellgoodliffe says :

    My solution to both these points is simple, call for radical reform, support a programme of radical democratic reform to the EU to make it accountable but dont run away and hide in a nationalist cul d sac which is simply wrong and also bad for Britain


    • Graham Gillis says :

      Someone is running and hiding.
      Please list your reforms in your order of priority.
      State how you will get them.
      State when you will get them.


  4. darrellgoodliffe says :

    I have listed them on other threads – namely a directly elected European President – curtailment of the powers of the European Commission and a investment of those powers in the European Parliament which is to assume sovereign governing power over the EU – abolition of the Council of Ministers, etc, etc, as to how you get them well you campaign, fight for election on them, pass measures through the EP etc, etc


    • Paul Perrin says :

      If the EU could be made to be accountable and democratic – why isn’t it already?

      I think you are utopian – “wouldn’t it be nice if”. The UK government is unaccountable when it wants to be – they set up an ‘ask the people petition’ system then three line whip against it ‘because it ‘isn’t government policy’.

      What would be the point of a petition for some thing that is *already* government policy?!?!?

      National governments are pretty remote and out of touch – to move that even further away (i.e. EU) iis to create a monster that *will* at some point turn around and destroy us.

      What ever you think of UK government – is there a national government of another EU country you would prefer? Because they are the people destined to rule the EU…


  5. Graham Gillis says :

    It’s purely egotistical on your behalf to assume you have any chance with any of this.
    You have no right to vote on any of your wishes.
    Your MEP has no right to vote on any of these wishes.
    Your party leader does not want to leave the EU, or even ask the people if they do.
    All you have is jingoistic mantras, I wish, I wish.
    A three line whip against a public request for discussion is the way to spoil discussion!
    If LibLabCon had a cost benefit analysis of membership, the matter could be decided on fact, not political ambition. You lot are frightened of the facts and that makes you incapable of looking at the question sensibly.
    You should not be in politics if you can’t face facts. Lobby your party for a cost/benefit analysis so we can have a sensible debate.


  6. Graham Gillis says :

    “It’s all gone quiet over there!!!!”

    Greek Generals sacked
    Europol and Eurotanks are on the move.
    Is this a Greek three line whip?
    I bet you wish they wouldn’t keep wanting referendums.
    Shame this democracy stuff gets in the way of your politics!
    Do you still claim you can reform the EU?
    Watch them stop this referendum and if they can’t stop it, rig it!
    If you take away the right of people to choose who rules them, you leave no alternative but civil disorder.


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